LUR 134 Paige | Non Performing Notes


Life happens, so you have to be ready for it. A significant life event can turn your life around, but the good news is you can do something today so you won’t worry about the future. You have probably heard that non-performing notes can make excellent investments. What do you have to do to get started? Listen to your host Lisa Hylton as she sits down for a conversation with Cashflow Chick Paige Panzarello about building wealth with notes. They discuss the difference between notes and private lending and other vital concepts you need to know. Educate yourself in this episode as Paige shares how to buy non-performing notes, due diligence to perform, and mitigate risks. She also shares the most rewarding parts of being a note investor. Tune in to learn how to control your invested dollars, elevate your life, and create a financial future that you’ll be proud of.

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From Losing $20M To Being A Successful Non Performing Note Investor With Cashflow Chick Paige Panzarello

I have on the show Paige Panzarello. She is the Cashflow Chick. Having been a real estate investor and entrepreneur for many years, Paige has experienced many facets of real estate investing. Her experience includes founding and running her residential, commercial construction and acquisition companies, buy and hold residential, commercial real estate investing, tax liens, lead investing, fix and flips and other forms to name a few.

Paige has been focusing on and purchasing nonperforming notes since 2014 and has founded The Tryllion Group, which invests in notes across the United States. I’m excited to have her on the show to talk about notes, investing in notes and everything connected to notes. Welcome to the show, Paige. I’m happy to have you.

Lisa, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

I have known Paige for a few years. It’s amazing how time has blown. Many people have gone through your notes program, bought notes and the whole nine yards. I’m excited to have you on. To get started, can you share a little bit about how you even got started investing in real estate?

I’m going to take you way back. I’ve been investing in real estate for many years. I didn’t choose real estate investing. It chose me. I was thrown into the deep end of the pool when I first got started. My grandmother had passed away. She had a very large estate, half of which was in California, where I and my family live. Half of which was in Arizona. It was about $4 million in debt. My family decided to handle the assets here in California and off to Arizona I went knowing nothing about real estate or real estate investing.

Back then, we didn’t have podcasts. We barely had the internet. I had to surround myself with people that had the answers to the questions that I was asking because I knew nothing. We had a sewer treatment plant. We had 38 townhome units and about 40% were occupied. The other 60% were broken or in a state of disrepair. We had some land. My first goal was to try and get those units that were broken up, running and rented.

I’m going to fast forward a little bit. I was able to work with people to that we owed money. I gave them a game plan. I said, “This is what my plan is and what I’m going to do. I’m going to pay you back. I just need you to work with me.” They did and I did. Fast forward to eighteen months, I was fixing and holding properties at that time before I even knew it was even a thing.

We were 100% occupied. All of the units had been fixed. I paid everybody off within a couple of years. We were rocking and rolling. The problem is that we were in a situation where we were in a boutique market. We couldn’t command the types of rents that we needed to continue to be profitable. I saw that. I went to my family and said, “We need to sell these units and the sewer treatment plant. I want to take all that money and build on the land.” My family said, “You’re crazy. We don’t want to do that.”

I ended up buying the corporation from my family. I knew nothing about running a corporation. I had no idea but we sold all the units and the sewer treatment plant. I leverage that money and started building on the land. I designed a project with an architect and started building. I realized that the contractor that I had hired was going to bankrupt me before I even came out of the ground. I decided to fire him and started my construction company knowing nothing about construction.

There's always risk in everything. You just have to take the steps and educate yourself. Click To Tweet

This is around 2000 or 2001. Within three years, I was the largest private employer in the county. I had 36 employees. We were running payroll at $25,000 a week per project. I had five projects going at any given point in time. I was making money hand over fist. The problem was I was in my youth. That’s when I was young and strong. I was putting myself in an early grave. The stress was unbelievable. I was working 7 days a week, 12, 14 or 16 hours a day every single day. There was no reprieve. My family was all back in California so I had no support system. Even though I was making a lot of money, if I’m on the ground, that’s not going to help me.

I saw that the crash was coming because this is all from the early to mid-2000s. I saw the things that I was building and to whom I was selling. At that point in time, 2005 or 2006, if you could fog a mirror, if you had breath, you got a loan. I knew it wasn’t sustainable. What I didn’t think is that the crash was going to happen to me because I had all these assets. I wasn’t foolish with the money that I made. I invested it in other assets that were cashflowing. I had a lot of liquidity and equipment. I was only about 10% encumbered.

I thought, “This isn’t going to happen to me. I have these great relationships with lenders. I’m not going to have a problem.” I was very wrong. The crash happened on top of my head. When it happened, I didn’t anticipate that the people that owed me money weren’t going to be able to pay me because they’re lending froze up. In big construction, you put the bill for 90 to 120 days. If I’m running that payroll and carrying it for four months, do the math. When it happened, I had a decision to make. I thought, “You can liquidate everything at fire sale prices,” which I did, “Or you can go to bankruptcy.”

I chose not to go the bankruptcy route. I chose instead to liquidate everything that I had at pennies on the dollar because that cash was king at the time. It took me three years. I ended up paying everybody off whom I owed money. Many people filed bankruptcy on me and never paid me but that wasn’t the route that I decided to go. Three years after the crash started and finished, I left Arizona, came back to California and lost $20 million. That’s a huge amount of money. I don’t mean to be cavalier about that but I call that a blessing. The reason that I say that is not that I enjoyed losing that kind of money but it taught me who I am as an investor.

It taught me how I relate to money and how I treat my investors. I paid the people to that I owed money. It also taught me my risk tolerance, which was brutal but an important lesson to learn. It was difficult at that time but I truly do call it a blessing. I wouldn’t be here if that didn’t happen to me. I wouldn’t be as successful as I am had that not happened to me. It truly is a blessing. I went away from real estate for a little while. I had to regroup and lick my wounds a little bit but I came back in. I had to build up my capital and start doing the things that most people do.

Given your experience up until this point and the lessons that you learned in losing $20 million and ultimately coming back to California, can you talk a little bit about how you decided to then go to notes? Did that experience influence the way you choose to play in real estate?

Yes. That’s what I meant by it taught me who I am as an investor and my risk tolerance. When I started, I was young, fearless and bold. I had nothing to lose. I could take big risks and I did. When I came back into real estate after having been away for a few years, I was very gun shy. I was terrified. I’m human. I had a meeting with myself. If any of you have ever heard me speak, I call it, “What’s Your What?” We all have the reason why we’re doing this but what is your what? What I mean by that is, “What do you need to get you to the next level? What are your risk tolerances? Who are you as an investor?”

I had that meeting with myself and I thought, “I need capital, chunks of cash and be able to control the scenario. I had a very high-risk tolerance when I started so I’m very risk averse. I don’t like any risk.” There’s always risk in everything but take steps and educate yourself. That’s what I did. I was fixing and flipping, wholesaling and doing all that stuff to build up my capital. When I found notes, I thought, “I’m going to take a look at this.” When I understood the power and the control that you have as a note investor over your invested dollars and more importantly, over your time, angel sang for me and I never looked back.

Can we talk about how you play notes? What are notes? How do you play in the note space?

LUR 134 Paige | Non Performing Notes

Non Performing Notes: You have to figure out what you need to do right now that will get you to the next level. Determine who you are as an investor.


Notes are a debt instrument. That’s all they are. There are many different kinds of notes that you can invest in but it’s a promise to pay. When you become a note investor, you step into the shoes of the bank. You become the bank. It is good to be the bank because the bank has the power. The bank controls the transactions. If you think of any real estate deal you’ve ever done, the bank has controlled that transaction from start to finish. The same thing with note investing. There are many different kinds of notes that you can buy. You can buy credit card debt, which is unsecured notes. In my opinion, that’s very risky. Many note investors buy auto loans.

I choose the first position, meaning I get on the first of to be paid nonperforming notes secured by real estate. What that means is, “I’m in the first position. I get paid first. My security for my invested dollars is the house or the building, which can’t be picked up and moved. That’s my security. If my borrowers don’t pay, then I have the option to take control and that house as payment in full.” It gives me a lot of flexibility and control over my invested dollars.

How do they compare to private lending?

Private lending is creating a note. If you are the private lender, you’re lending your money to a borrower for whatever they’re going to do, especially if it’s in real estate if you’re lending to a borrower to fix and flip a property. Your security should be either the 1st or 2nd position against that property. A private lender gets the borrowers’ promise to pay the note. They also get either a mortgage or a deed of trust, which is the document that ties the promise to pay to the actual collateral, which is the house.

A lot of private lenders end up in a second position because, in the first position, there’s usually a hard money lender in front of that person to buy the property. A second position is a private lender for the rehab costs. That’s usually in a fix-and-flip situation. Sometimes private lenders lend the whole thing. They’re in the first position but buyers or lenders, be aware. That’s why I focus on first because, in a second position, you are subject to the risk. If your borrower defaults and they’re not paying their first position lien, then that first can foreclose on that property, take that property and wipe out your security for that lien.

That is very important to know because there’s nothing else that the person who’s in the second position can do.

They can still go after the person but the security is gone. Once the house is gone, your note is as good as the paper it’s written on. Especially if you’re doing a non-recourse loan, which means that your borrower is not on the hook, your loan is only against the house. Even though you’re lending it to a person, if you’re in the second position and it’s a non-recourse loan, that means you can’t go after your borrower if the first forecloses. Be careful.

The different types of loans. Going to this last example would be pretty much going into a performing note versus you do nonperforming notes. Firstly, are there other types of notes besides nonperforming and performing? I think that it’s those two but I’m not sure.

There are performing, nonperforming and different positions. There are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on. There’s HELOC, which is the Home Equity Line Of Credit. There are many different types of notes and positions that you can get into. Each position affords certain securities that go along with it. For the most part, it’s either performing or sub-performing, which means sporadic performance. I focus on nonperforming. It sounds a little crazy because that sounds very risky like, “Why are you doing that, Paige? You’re the cashflow chick so you like cashflow.”

A lot of private lenders end up in a second position because in the first position, there's usually a hard money lender in front of that person. Click To Tweet

The reason is it’s crazy like a fox. I buy these nonperforming notes at a much bigger discount than I would pay for a performing note. My goal is to be a note investor because I’ve had life happen to me. I’ve had a big loss. I realized that people are not necessarily bad people when they stop paying their mortgages. It means life happened to them. I try and work with my borrower to get them to reperform. I try and give them a second chance. I take that nonperforming note that I buy at a very steep discount, which means I mitigate my risk because I’m building equity. When I build equity, there’s a lot of flexibility in terms of what I can do to work with my borrower.

I’m mitigating my risk because I’m building in equity based on the current market value of the securing collateral as it sits. In a fix and flip situation, you are speculating what the value of the property is going to be. The market was going up and all of a sudden, super level off, then things are starting to go down. I mitigate against that risk because I’m not speculating. I based my purchase price on the current market value as it sits and then discount it big time from there.

This brings me to how you make money buying nonperforming notes. I’m guessing the first step is buying it at a steep discount. What are some of the other things?

As real estate investors, we all know that we make our money when we buy property. We collect our money when we exit or sell that property or asset. It’s the same thing with notes. We make our money on the buy. We do extensive due diligence in terms of notes and note investing. We make sure there are a lot of different little nuances about notes and note investing. We do build in that large equity cushion because we’re buying it at a big discount based on the current market value of the securing collateral. If worst comes to worst I can’t work with my borrower and get them to reperform, I have options as the bank. I can foreclose on that property. I get to set the opening bid.

We evaluate how much money is owed versus how much the property is worth. I make money that way. If I get a borrower to reperform, then I can do a variety of different things. I can make a small chunk of cash. With me, they’re going to have to have a trial payment plan. We don’t immediately go to a modification. We do a trial for six months. They need to prove to me that they can do this. They give me a small chunk of cash and then cashflow every month. At the end of six months in the trial, if they’re successful, I do a permanent loan modification and there are all kinds of things we can do.

We can forgive the debt, lower interest rates, extend the term of the loan and roll in the arrearage into the interest-bearing balance. There are all kinds of fun stuff that we can do that we don’t have time to talk about. If I get that borrower to reperform, I create a chunk of cash and monthly cashflow. If you’re a newer note investor, you can sell that performing loan depending on location, what we call UPB, which is Unpaid Principal Balance. That big cushion of equity, you’re going to capture that when you exit the asset. You might give a small discount, 10% off of the unpaid principal balance but you’re creating a big chunk of cash that you can reinvest in another note.

If you can’t work with your borrower and you take possession of the property, either through a deed in lieu of foreclosure or the REO sale at the foreclosure auction, it doesn’t sell to somebody else, you can convert it into a buy and hold, do a fix and flip yourself, sell it to a fix and flipper and carry the paperback. You’re making money twice on the same asset. There are many different things you could do.

As you point out all the different ways you can work with these nonperforming notes, it makes me think, is there such a thing as a bad note? It looks like there are many different ways to work with them and exit out of them too.

We do have 26 different exit strategies in note investing. Is there a bad note? There are some scratch and dent notes but I often would like to say that there’s no such thing as a bad note but there is such a thing as buying a note badly. I do not suggest you do this but you could go out online and buy a note. I am all that going to guarantee you that you are going to get hurt because you don’t know the due diligence steps to take and what to look for. There are different nuances that you’re going to have to look for like a chain of ownership from bank to bank. There are all kinds of different little things that you need to look for. Once you educate yourself and know what to look for, you can mitigate against almost all of that risk and not buy a note badly.

LUR 134 Paige | Non Performing Notes

Non Performing Notes: When you become a note investor, you literally step into the shoes of the bank. It is good because the bank has the power. Bank controls the transactions. If you think of any real estate deal you’ve ever done, the bank has controlled that transaction from start to finish.


What are the steps to acquiring a nonperforming note anyway?

Like anything in real estate, there are two things that people look for, deals in money and money in deals. In note investing, if I had to say that there was a con to note investing, unlike a fix and flip, there isn’t financing through the conventional methods to buy a note. You do need cash. You’re either going to need other people’s money, a private lender, a JV partner or your cash.

This is perfect for self-directed IRA money. There’s a lot of that out there. There’s over $1.7 trillion in self-directed IRAs. There are all kinds of opportunities there but then you have to find the deals. Like anything, you are going to need to know who to contact. I buy notes from banks, hedge funds, credit unions, other note investors and note brokers.

Like anything, there’s networking involved. I spend $0 on marketing for my note deals, no money at all. I do not do yellow letters, knock on doors, cold calls or anything. I network for my deals. I go to no conventions, asset managers, other note investors and people that are service providers in this space for referrals. You start to build, like anything else, a network and sources for the product. There are a lot of products on the market.

This point here is very interesting because for a lot of people out there, when they think about investing in real estate, sometimes they think that if they are doing some of these other strategies, they might have to learn marketing, whereas this strategy, what’s key here is someone willing to do the networking, meet people and build relationships. Real estate, in general, as a real estate, is a relationship business but this is more so to get any deals at all.

Yes and no because you could go online. You don’t need to network to go online. Some good note deals are out there but you need to know what to look for. If you’re not good at marketing, then this might be the vehicle for you. Even in any kind of traditional real estate investing, real estate is all about relationships. It’s a team sport. You cannot do this alone. To some degree, there’s going to be networking with someone somewhere along the line if you want to be in real estate investing and this is no different.

A couple more things here before moving forward a little bit more. Thinking back at notes, when you’re funding those deals, you mentioned from what I wrote down was capital intensive. In the sense that either you’re going to need to have capital, syndicate or do some other joint venture situation with a few other people, put money together and you guys are all involved in looking at notes and selecting them. If I’m right, the key con in this situation is you’re going to need to have the capital to be able to play in the space.

You are going to need to have capital. You can wholesale a property. Most people know, at this point, what wholesaling is. In the note space, there are no wholesaling notes. Asset managers tend to frown on that unless you have their permission. You can be a connector and ask for a referral fee. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s a way to get into this space. You can look for some JV partners.

I want to caution everybody that it is not just for notes. Be very careful about pooling money unless you have set up something to legally be able to do that with the SEC. If you’re just joint venturing and you’re pooling money together, then you need to set up an entity and make sure that it’s with the people that are in your sphere of influence. Meaning, you know these people and they know each other because then it’s considered selling security.

People are not necessarily bad people when they stop paying their mortgage. It just means life happened to them. Click To Tweet

If they’re not in your sphere of influence and you’re pooling money from a bunch of different sources, the SEC will rain down on you. You will get a huge fine, perhaps jail time. Believe me, they go after low-hanging fruit. If you think, “I’m just the little guy not doing anything,” those are the people that they target. Be very careful about pooling money. There are legal ways to do it, syndication or a fund where PPM but any investors that are starting, unless it’s project-specific like buying an apartment building, most of us are going to start JV-ing. Make sure that those people know these people and that they’re in your sphere of influence. Talk to an SEC attorney.

One other thing before is due diligence, which is crazy important. Can you about maybe some of the things that are involved in that due diligence process that is key?

There’s a lot. One of the beautiful things about note investing is what I call very front-end loaded in terms of doing your due diligence. You’re going to spend the bulk of your time looking at and evaluating the asset by doing your due diligence. When you buy the asset, then you hand it off to your team members and you manage your managers.

Fix and flip is different. It’s very backend loaded, which means that you do a little bit of due diligence upfront and then be hands-on in the project through to the very end. That’s very time intensive. A note is very front-end loaded. We do due diligence like we have to make sure that we always have somebody lay eyes on the property. We don’t rely on Google Earth. We send somebody to go buy that property and make sure it’s there because that is the securing collateral for our invested dollars.

Hurricanes happen in Florida. Tornadoes happen in Oklahoma and Missouri. Somebody has to lay eyes on that property before you buy it and make sure it’s standing and it’s there. You also want to find out the value. Remember that I base my purchase price on a discounted rate of the current market value of the property as it sits, not when I fix it. I need a professional’s opinion and we engage. Over the years that I’ve been doing this, I’ve built a network of realtors across the country that helped me to determine valuations of the property as it sits.

You want to make sure about that. You want to check beds, baths and square footage. You have certain criteria for that because in my strategy if I have to take a property back, I want to be able to sell it quickly. I want to be in and out of notes quickly. I’m going to avoid houses that are anything less than a 2-bedroom and 1-bath because they’re harder to sell. The county population is another thing you want to look for because you want a bigger buyers pool. Also, there are free forms of due diligence. There are three stages of due diligence in note investing. Two of which are free. One is paid. You are going to order specific reports.

You’re going to check the chain of ownership from bank to bank If you’ve ever put a mortgage in place and bought a house, 30 days or 1 year later, you get a letter that says, “We’re no longer your lender. Your new lender is.” That means your notes have been sold. We need to make sure that all of the documents are in place in that chain of ownership. There is a lot of due diligence upfront but once you buy that note, you hand it off to your teams and manage your managers.

Are they typically looking for liens as well on the property things?

Yes. Thank you for mentioning that. We want to make sure that if there are any liens that they’re behind us and they’re not going to affect our investment, the only thing that will surpass, survive a foreclosure and will take precedence over a first position lien is municipal liens. Meaning property taxes. Those don’t ever go away.

LUR 134 Paige | Non Performing Notes

Non Performing Notes: With notes, we make our money on the buy. So we do extensive due diligence in terms of notes and note investing and make sure there are a lot of different little nuances about notes.


We always check property taxes. We start online but we always call and verify. There are reasons for that. We want to make sure that there’s not been a tax sale that has already happened because if that has happened in a lien situation, then that tax lien certificate holder can foreclose on that lien and wipe out your mortgage. It’s the little things like that we want to be careful about.

Thinking about this, you came from the flipping and wholesaling of both commercials as well as residential spaces. As you do these nonperforming notes, I’m curious for someone who’s reading and is like, “I have rentals. How does this stack up to having a rental portfolio? Is it worth it for me to learn about nonperforming notes?” What would you say to that individual who’s thinking about it but is focused on the rental space?

The answer is it depends. You need to know what your what is. Some people need depreciating assets. They have to have physical brick and mortar buildings. Angel is saying for me because I realized I could create chunks of cash and streams of monthly cashflow without the headache of tenants, toilets and taxes. I don’t have to pay for any of those things. I don’t have to worry about my property manager or whether they’re taking care of my property because that’s on the borrower.

In the notes space, if the air conditioning breaks, they’re not going to call you. If the toilet floods at midnight or a pipe breaks, they’re not going to call you because you’re their bank, not their landlord. For me, I am very heavy. I do have depreciating assets because my accountant requires that I do if I want to offset taxes but the bulk of my portfolio is in notes because I create the same cashflow and chunks of cash without the headache of having a tenant.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of being a note investor?

Helping somebody that’s down on their luck and helping a family to stay in their home because life happens to all of us. Every single day, there’s death, divorce, downsizing and medical issues. People tend to want to stay in their house, especially if they’ve been vested in it like their kids have grown up in their house. About 1/3 of the time, I’m able to help people stay in their homes. I buy it well enough and I’m able to work with them and create a situation that’s a win-win where they get to stay and I get to profit.

Let’s talk a little bit about the market environment. We are in an environment where interest rates are continuing to increase. Inflation is what it is. Sometimes it’s going up. Sometimes it’s evening out or whatever the case is. Is this a good time to be investing in notes?

It’s always a good time to be investing in notes?

Why is it always a good time to be investing in notes?

Network for your deals the right way. Talk to asset managers, note investors, service providers, and build those relationships. Click To Tweet

Life happens to all of us every single day. The elephant in the room is something that we haven’t discussed. If you’re buying property, it’s a lot scary in 2022. If you’re trying to sell property, it’s scarier. The Fed is continuing to raise interest rates by more than doubling since the beginning of 2022. When interest rates rise, your buyer pool shrinks. We’re starting to see housing prices starting to come down. We’ve gone on a 12 or 13-year high. Those of you that are in a property that is trying to sell it, it’s a lot scarier time than those of you trying to buy it because trying to buy it, you have a little more leverage in the buyer’s market.

In the note space, there’s none of that competition. It’s the backdoor way of investing. It’s always a good time. You need to pay attention because we’re basing our price on a very discounted rate on the market value. You have to make adjustments knowing that the values are starting to come down. You want to make sure that you make those kinds of adjustments.

It’s always a good time to be on notes. The elephant in the room is what’s happened over the last couple of years because when we started pre-pandemic, we had a lot of foreclosures that were happening. When the pandemic hit and people lost their jobs or voluntarily left their jobs, people stopped paying their mortgages. What the banks did is what’s called a forbearance agreement, which is, in essence, kicking the can down the road.

It’s taking the default part of what’s owed and either making it due at a later period or rolling it to the backend of the note. Most of them gave a 4 to a 12-month extension. At the end of that, all of that money became due. People in dire straights. We’ve seen foreclosure rates increase to over 200%. That is unheard of. It’s unprecedented. At the beginning of 2022, it’s the same thing. When those moratoriums ended at the end of the third quarter of 2021, we’ve seen a huge influx of foreclosures happening.

Pricing was a little high so there weren’t a lot of products being moved but we still have all those people in default and the prices are coming down, which creates an opportunity for note investors and it is huge. I can’t predict 100% but given my experience, no investors in this space were going to have an amazing 2 to 3 years. It’s hard because people are hurting. If you take the position that I take and try and help people, we can make a difference in people’s lives and turn a profit.

If people are reading and they’re like, “I want to learn more about how to invest in notes,” what’s the best place they can go to learn more?

There’s a lot of free information that’s out there. Do some of that homework. You can go to If you’re interested in free information or videos, go to I’m happy to send you a bunch of free stuff. You can go to my YouTube channel under Cashflow Chick. I teach a workshop. I used to do it a couple of times a year. I am so busy. I had to downsize that. The one workshop that I did has already passed, unfortunately. However, there is an online version. If you go to, you can take a look at that online version or you can go to There’s a tab that says Online Training. Those are the options that are going to be available to you.

I don’t hold anything back. I’m the type of person that if I’m going to teach somebody how to fish, I’m going to give them all the tools. I give you everything you need to know about how to find notes, how to fund notes, what to do with them when you find them, due diligence that you need to go through and making sure that you have the right teams in place. I’m giving my teams to make sure that you’re successful in your endeavors in note investing.

Two last questions. The first one is, can you talk about an important characteristic that you have that has helped you to become the successful investor you are?

LUR 134 Paige | Non Performing Notes

Non Performing Notes: Life happens to all of us. Notes can help those who are out of luck or who just experienced a major life event.


Knowing what my what is. Sitting down because a lot of people get into real estate investing and they don’t know who they are. There are a lot of shiny objects out there. Everybody that you hear speaks is passionate about what they’re speaking about because they’re involved. Everybody else’s passion doesn’t equate to necessarily your passion. Sit down with yourself. Your what changes as you grow as an investor. Have this meeting with yourself at least once a year because as you grow, your needs change and that will guide your footsteps.

For instance, if you need chunks of cash, then a buy and hold situation is probably not for you. If you need the monthly cashflow, then a fix and flip is probably not for you. Determine your what. That will guide your steps in terms of your investment and knowing what your risk tolerances are going to compound that and create very successful investments for you. You’re not stressed. Your health is suffering and you are not sleeping at night. Knowing what my what is when I came back into this space is paramount to my success as an investor.

Would you say that the key thing real estate and entrepreneurship have taught you is getting clarity on your what or has it been something else additionally?

There’s a lot in that question. Knowing what your what is key to starting. You’re also going to develop who you are as an investor with the people that you want to work with because this is a team sport and there do need to be other people involved. Sometimes you think, “This is great. I want to be an entrepreneur,” but you also have a full-time job and you don’t necessarily have the time. What do you need to put in place to be an entrepreneur? To a degree, it’s the foundation. It branches off from there and what’s your willingness to be persistent and work forward as well because no one’s magically going to drop a bunch of money in your lap.

This is work, including notes. Notes is work. Anybody that tells you that real estate is not work or hard is lying to you. Here’s another thin. Be aware. If somebody tells you that they’ve never lost money in real estate, please run in the other direction. Here’s why. You need to know that you are going to lose money. It happens to every single one of us. Hopefully, you can do things to mitigate that risk and make it small.

If somebody says that they haven’t lost money in real estate, either they’re lying to you or they haven’t been in it long enough to have lost money. Know that going in. It’s scary to hear but I lost $20 million. If you think about it, I lost $24 million because we were $4 million in debt. Not only did I make that up but I made $20 million on top of it. I am living proof that you can recover, be better and come back stronger.

This was so awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you coming to the show. For people, if they want to reach out to learn more about you, what’s the best place they can go?

The best place you can go in one central location is to go to There are all kinds of stuff on my website and I can guide you from there. You can even schedule a call with me for free. There’s a little button there that you can reach out to.

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure having you on.

Lisa, thank you for having me. I had a lot of fun.


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About Paige Panzarello

LUR 134 Paige | Non Performing NotesPaige Panzarello is the “Cashflow Chick”.  Having been a Real Estate investor and entrepreneur for almost 25 years, Paige has experienced many facets of real estate investing.  Her experience includes founding and running her own Residential and Commercial Construction and Acquisition companies, Buy and Hold residential and commercial real estate investing, Tax Deeds/Liens Investing, Fix and Flip (Residential Remodeling), and other forms to name a few.  Paige has been focusing on and purchasing Non-Performing Notes (NPNs) since 2014, and she formed The Tryllion Group, which invests in Notes across the United States.  Whether in notes, residential or commercial real estate, in California, Arizona, or nationwide, Paige has been successful in completing over $150 million in real estate transactions to date.

She has been a regularly featured guest on both national and international podcasts. Paige has also been interviewed and highlighted in an article in the Wall Street Journal. She also speaks at various real estate investing groups and conferences across the country. Paige is a contributing  author, and she is featured in several best-selling books.

Paige teaches the “Building Wealth with Notes” Workshop that drills down into the details of how to buy Non-Performing Notes, what to look for, due diligence to perform, and most importantly, how to mitigate risk.  Her 10-week Master Class is a hands-on deep dive where Paige walks you through the nitty-gritty details to be a successful Note buyer.
Having experienced the hardship of the economic downturn of 2008, and what she calls “a very difficult learning experience”, Paige knows first-hand how “life can happen” to everyone.             Her company was founded to help people in distress.  Paige is also driven to help educate people on the importance of passive income, deal evaluation, money and debt management.  She wants everyone to elevate their situation and become free of dependence on anyone or anything, so that when “life happens”, people will be ready, not broken.


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